we spend about $90 billion a year in cap-ex restoring america's infrastructure. so these are things that are critical not only to southern but the hole utility industry. >> ed, where do you think, john, what should we do with dividends? >> i think rates are going to go up. because we already have the obama care. >> so what? >> i think we'll probably see 20% for both not counting the obama care. >> is that the right answer? >> well, i'd like to keep them as low as possible. but given that they're going to need to raise some money, my guess is they're going to go up modestly. i think 20 is probably about right. it's a better answer than ordinary income rates on dividends. but i'd like to ask tom, you know, people who point to the dividend effect also think it might be overblown because about 70% of dividend paying stocks are owned by investors, either foreigners, or in tax -- you know, tax exempt plans, retirement accounts, where tax rate doesn't matter. does that make you feel a little bit better about what might be going on in washington? >> no. look, we know tha